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snuggle
I thought that you meant that, I just didn´t think you would hold that sort of view.

"Dense and evil" is a poor choice of words, but for me it is rather hard to swallow, to assume that the propetied have the right to enjoy the fruit of the labour that is withheld from those who literally spent part of their life (and often health) to create it.

It is basic capitalism (contradiction between capital and labour) and people have been used to it for generations, but it still amazes me, that so many people don´t question the assumption that capital/investment/money somehow creates plusvalue by itself. Shure, you need capital to create capital, but that capital itself is always a product of labour and or nature. The fact that you need to own capital to create plusvalue is to a significant part also a consequence of years of capitalist activity.

I know that shareholders/investors have an important role within capitalist economy (to provide capital) but it never cedes to amaze me that they often seem to think that they should be to compensated higher (and tax them less btw) for it than the people actually creating plusvalue.

That is why I don´t believe, even if I would assume that everyone was biased towards a deal in their favour, that this sort of behaviour is not reproachable.

Story time: Once I´ve actually met a capitalist (an "I have lands, companies, lots of people working for me" kind of guy, basically a modern day version of the protagonist of "I´m a man you don´t meet every day") who was happy to have fewer profits in order to pay his "fair share". I met him hitchhiking, he was on his way to ride his polo horses, so I joined him for a while. Seeing his animals and the estate was enough proof for me to believe that he was indeed a very rich man. Of course he was not exactly a lefty, but he chose not to live/invest in Argentina and move to Uruguay, which is a pretty socialist country. He also spoke very highly of the then president of Uruguay (a self declared anticapitalist) and his goverment. In a nutshell, he told me that he did so because he wanted to live in a functioning society and that he understood that in order to do that he would gladly renounce to a rather significant part of his profits and allow his workers to have a say. Pretty swell guy, and the closest thing to a responsible capitalist I´ve ever met. The point of the story is that I do not think that one should assume that it is OK to strive for the best deal for ones self and fuck the rest. I am not trying to construe that you wrote that, but it can be read like that.

The contradiction between capital and labour can´t be dissolved in capitalism, but there is a difference if you take the Elon Musk approach or the "pretty swell dude I just described"-approach.

I think I digressed a little =D

Wenn du weiter darüber reden willst, können wir das dann bitte auf Deutsch machen? Ich bin auf Englisch nicht so fest im Sattel was das entsprechende Vokabular angeht.

bussi =)

tl;dr No need attack capitalists personally for beeing capitalists, still people have to be held acountable for their actions. People with money are the ones who have the biggest autonomy of action, and can therefore be judged the thoroughest.

Don't be the product, buy the product!

Schweinderl